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Struggling with Behavioural Questions in Interviews?
They are the most common and also the toughest for many candidates.
This free E-book shows you how to answer them with confidence.
They are the most common and also the toughest for many candidates.
This free E-book shows you how to answer them with confidence.
Career Reshaped Episode 6: How To Find Your Purpose and Meaning in Life
What if 2025 wasn’t about pushing through—but finally listening to the signs, slowing down, and leading with heart?
In this special episode of Career Reshaped, Natasha and Pauline are joined by Amy—an educator, international school leader, and passionate advocate for staff well-being.
After 15 years in the classroom and leadership roles across Australia and abroad, Amy shares a powerful truth: educators are constantly running on autopilot—delivering, performing, showing up—but rarely pausing to check in on themselves.
This episode goes beyond titles and credentials. It’s a candid reflection on burnout, leadership, and the importance of collective well-being in schools. Amy’s journey shows us what happens when a leader decides to stop, reflect, and reset—not just for herself, but for her entire school community.
With a master’s in educational leadership and certifications in coaching and workplace wellbeing, Amy doesn’t just talk the talk. She’s helping school leaders reimagine what it means to lead well—by starting with their own wellbeing first.
🎧 Tune in for an honest, grounded conversation that reminds us: your career doesn’t have to cost you your health. Your impact grows when you take care of you, too.
Discussion Overview
Many teachers, like this episode’s guest, experience burnout from long hours, lack of support, and constant pressure to meet expectations. It often leads to exhaustion and the gut feeling that something needs to change—but change itself can feel overwhelming.
For educators, the shift away from teaching often stems from needing more freedom, creativity, or alignment with personal values. Motivation comes from reconnecting with what lights you up—and reminding yourself why you started exploring a new path.
Fear of losing stability, imposter syndrome, and letting go of an identity rooted in teaching can all be challenging. This episode highlights the importance of self-trust, a growth mindset, and support from people who understand the transition journey.
The guest reflects on how society tends to value corporate success more than the impact teachers make. Yet teachers play a huge role in shaping lives, often without the recognition or resources they deserve—leading many to feel invisible in their careers.
It starts by listening to your gut. If you're constantly questioning, “Is this it?”—that’s a clue. Begin exploring what energizes you and where your curiosity leads. Small steps like journaling, mentoring, or taking on creative projects can guide you toward deeper fulfillment.
Mindset is everything. The fear doesn’t disappear—but reframing it as a sign of growth helps. The guest shares how embracing uncertainty and trusting the process opened doors she didn’t expect.
Clarity on your values and long-term vision helps you shape a venture that reflects who you are. Whether you're building a brand, launching a service, or freelancing—thinking long-term ensures it’s sustainable and meaningful, not just a quick fix.
When your work aligns with what you genuinely enjoy and care about, it becomes more than a job—it becomes a calling. The guest explains how rediscovering her love for communication and coaching gave her new energy and direction.
Don’t rush the process. Reflect on what you’re really good at, what energizes you, and what lifestyle you want. Also, don’t be afraid to start small—whether that’s freelancing, volunteering, or taking a course to test new waters.
It’s often subtle at first—fatigue, frustration, or a lack of joy. Then it becomes louder. That restlessness is a signal, not a failure. Recognizing it is the first step toward making a more aligned move.
Podcast Transcript:
| Time | Transcript |
|---|---|
| 00:00 | i've never met a teacher who's not just going above and beyond i'm not saying |
| 00:02 | that they don't then burn out and then get a little bit resentful over things |
| 00:05 | but i've never ever met someone who isn't there for the right reasons and |
| 00:09 | i've never ever met a school leader who's not trying to look after their |
| 00:12 | staff but at the end of the day strong relationships is key and we are |
| 00:17 | as you said on autopilot we're just go go we're not stopping and reflecting and |
| 00:21 | that's something i'm just trying to get the education system to slow down a |
| 00:24 | little bit and actually just stop and reflect and get some clarity because we |
| 00:27 | are just running so fast and i think one of the biggest things that i've learned |
| 00:30 | in this identity shift in career change has been how much i was running on |
| 00:34 | autopilot how much i've now learnt about myself and that's actually can be quite |
| 00:37 | confronting this podcast is your go-to guide for landing your dream job think |
| 00:42 | of it as your free masterclass packed with all the tips advice and strategies |
| 00:46 | you need to take your career to the next level |
| 00:49 | hi and welcome to episode 6 of career reshaped i'm pauline i'm natasha |
| 00:57 | and we would like to introduce our guest today amy with over 15 years in |
| 01:02 | education as both a teacher and school leader both in australia and |
| 01:07 | internationally amy has witnessed how in the hustle of daily demands |
| 01:12 | staff wellbeing often slips down the list of priorities she's become a |
| 01:17 | sought-after speaker sharing her message on stages both nationally and |
| 01:21 | internationally advocating for the importance of collective staff |
| 01:25 | well-being in schools around the globe amy brings a rich blend of expertise |
| 01:31 | including a masters in educational leadership a health and wellbeing |
| 01:35 | coaching professional certificate and an accredited practitioner certification in |
| 01:40 | workplace wellbeing her insights are further enriched by her |
| 01:45 | podcasts reflection of school leaders and wonders of well-being two podcasts |
| 01:52 | she believes that to lead well school leaders must first prioritize their own |
| 01:56 | well-being through her work she supports leaders to |
| 01:59 | take meaningful and intentional action toward fostering a positive team culture |
| 02:05 | and a thriving school community all while keeping a well-being focused |
| 02:10 | lens on the forefront amazing |
| 02:14 | hi amy thanks for joining us today hi how are you |
| 02:18 | thank you for having me i'm really good so nice to see you both |
| 02:23 | again yes great seeing you too i haven't since |
| 02:27 | been what few years now i thought i actually just i actually |
| 02:32 | just looked it up and it was two years ago in three days |
| 02:37 | oh wow wow i can't wait to see him no um amy was |
| 02:43 | one of our first career change clients so |
| 02:46 | really happy to have her with us and delve deep into all the ups and downs |
| 02:51 | hopefully there were more ups than down through your journey and we'd love to |
| 02:56 | just know everything so i mean we've read your beautiful introduction and all |
| 03:00 | the amazing things and i'm very excited that you have two podcasts now seeing as |
| 03:05 | we're just getting our first one off our feet so we know how hard it is so well |
| 03:09 | done on that thank you thanks so much so |
| 03:14 | why don't you give us a little rundown of |
| 03:17 | exactly when it was in your career that you realized you needed to reshape |
| 03:22 | what you were doing that's such a good question |
| 03:26 | um i think it's a little bit of a combination of things as always and kind |
| 03:30 | of a build-up i guess it wasn't sort of it was like one morning i woke up and i |
| 03:33 | was like wow this is what i need to do but definitely moments where more change |
| 03:38 | or the direction of change started to happen |
| 03:41 | um we moved to tokyo in the middle of the pandemic and i was a teacher at the |
| 03:47 | time and i thought that a new setting a new |
| 03:51 | curriculum a new way of life living on the other side of the world |
| 03:54 | would perhaps reignite a little bit of passion that i felt i had lost as an as |
| 04:00 | a teacher and as a school leader and um i think if i'm really honest with myself |
| 04:04 | the reason that we went to japan was because i was feeling a little bit of a |
| 04:07 | lack of connection to my role in australia as an educator and i thought |
| 04:11 | that wow maybe i just needed to just mix things up a little bit maybe if we move |
| 04:15 | over to the other side of the world maybe if i teach a completely new |
| 04:18 | curriculum in an international school for the first time it will sort of |
| 04:20 | reignite this passion for something that i had honestly for 10 12 years woken up |
| 04:25 | every day absolutely loving what i did but that was starting to change so i |
| 04:29 | think it was yeah i think it was a combination of things but i really |
| 04:33 | actually started to feel emotionally exhausted from the role |
| 04:38 | i was starting to get cynical about it like i was starting to be someone who |
| 04:42 | just wasn't enjoying what i was doing i was becoming quite negative about what i |
| 04:47 | did and the space that i was in and i actually started to almost reduce my |
| 04:52 | sense of accomplishment like i was feeling like i actually wasn't doing a |
| 04:54 | good job at what i was doing and the more i actually dug deeper into it i'm |
| 04:58 | like oh there actually are components of burnout |
| 05:01 | in there that i had never seen and i don't i don't |
| 05:05 | use usually the language of oh i burnt out so i now do this i don't i don't |
| 05:09 | think it was just that i think it was a combination of things but |
| 05:12 | it really was those three things that when i do look into well-being and i do |
| 05:16 | look into burnout i think wow they really were three things that i think i |
| 05:20 | felt for a long time um and i think they ended up being the catalyst for |
| 05:25 | why i ended up getting in contact with you guys |
| 05:30 | you know that it's really interesting because there |
| 05:32 | are a lot of teachers that we do speak with and |
| 05:37 | burnout in your industry is real especially when schools don't |
| 05:42 | really put a lot of effort into well-being and making sure that their |
| 05:46 | teachers are coping with the workload because you get it from the students you |
| 05:50 | get it from the parents you get it from the government like you're |
| 05:54 | being talked at from all |
| 05:57 | angles and it's not just when you're at school you got to bring everything home |
| 06:02 | and you know we know teachers thatrespond to their students at 9pm at |
| 06:05 | night and it's because they feel a duty to do |
| 06:08 | it they know they don't have to but you connect with your students and teachers |
| 06:13 | really really do start to you know thin out it's it's very |
| 06:18 | stressful job and it's it's a shame as well because |
| 06:22 | the role of a teacher is so important so significant like |
| 06:27 | you know you see the kids more than we do at |
| 06:30 | times and you are helping to shape that next |
| 06:34 | generation so the good teachers are getting burned out |
| 06:38 | they're leaving and what's left like what's behind and that's also quite |
| 06:43 | scary but i think natasha didn't even realize the the magnitude of how hard |
| 06:49 | and how emotionally |
| 06:52 | and mentally and physically draining the role is until we we went and did a um |
| 06:56 | a careers expo and it was a three-day expo and on the first |
| 07:01 | day it was a friday so that's when a lot of the schools like the high schools |
| 07:04 | came in um thinking about okay what's next what's after high school and we |
| 07:09 | were shocked with how many teachers approached us almost in tears |
| 07:13 | like can you help me like you know i was like |
| 07:16 | we couldn't believe it like wow like we didn't realize that it was like |
| 07:21 | that's now with my kids i have such a different respect for the |
| 07:26 | teachers i'm just i always thank them and so appreciative |
| 07:31 | of what they do because they do go overand above |
| 07:34 | yeah absolutely absolutely and i think i had always like my family would say i |
| 07:38 | had always said once i got into education that i'd only be a teacher for |
| 07:41 | 10 years and i don't know where thatstemmed from but i think also and that's |
| 07:45 | why i feel like it's a combination of things and i don't necessarily pin my |
| 07:48 | story to the fact that i burnt out as an educator because i think it's a |
| 07:51 | combination of things that i never actually saw myself in the classroom |
| 07:56 | for a really long time anyway so that's why i mean i think it was a combination |
| 07:59 | of things and the more i did some self-reflection and did some research |
| 08:03 | and things i then realized well hang on a minute these components are exactly |
| 08:06 | how i was feeling but it was also a combination of other things |
| 08:10 | you're fair enough that's fair so |
| 08:13 | then what okay you had that realization that okay maybe |
| 08:17 | this is the stop of this career path for me |
| 08:21 | what next what motivated you to go down this new direction because you could |
| 08:26 | have gone down any path really i mean we we showed you many paths |
| 08:31 | absolutely yeah absolutely |
| 08:35 | um so i i think i'm just so lucky to have my |
| 08:39 | husband as my number one supporter and he was actually a massive catalyst for |
| 08:43 | this i'm not sure if either if you guys |
| 08:45 | remember but i had obviously yeah i had obviously been uh |
| 08:50 | talking about some would say whinging but |
| 08:52 | i would say talking about um this idea of like what am i gonna |
| 08:56 | what can i do like i'm not happy where i am i'm not feeling like i'm the best |
| 08:59 | version of myself i don't feel like the students and parents and schools are |
| 09:02 | getting the best version of me as to what i have been able to produce before |
| 09:06 | what am i doing like where am i going to go and obviously this had been an |
| 09:09 | ongoing conversation in our house and um quite a few times my beautiful |
| 09:13 | husband eric had said maybe you speak to a careers coach i'm like nah i don't |
| 09:17 | need that i if i if i i should be able to work it out on my own um and i think |
| 09:22 | just very gently he just sort of like dropped some seeds over time um and i |
| 09:26 | think he could tell that i was becoming perhaps a little bit more curious or |
| 09:29 | he'd go to say something about it i'd actually listen rather than just dismiss |
| 09:32 | him and one day i got home from work and he |
| 09:35 | said to me oh hey i've got something to share with you i was like yeah he's like |
| 09:39 | oh i did reach out to these career girls who are in melbourne um and i just think |
| 09:44 | i'd really encourage you to jump on a call and just have a chat and that's |
| 09:47 | honestly where it started and here we are so |
| 09:50 | that was definitely the first step yeah you know it's really amazing to have |
| 09:55 | someone like your husband that's really rooting |
| 09:58 | for you and i'm sure everyone has someone like that in their lives but to |
| 10:01 | have someone in your home so every day supporting you it is |
| 10:06 | really it makes such a tremendous change into you as well because he's motivating |
| 10:10 | you and pushing you as well which is fantastic |
| 10:13 | so yeah you reach out to us and we we had a |
| 10:16 | conversation we did the whole thing the report showing you all the |
| 10:20 | different career paths that you can take but we also did look into |
| 10:24 | your idea of this business of going out on your own and when pauline and i were |
| 10:30 | doing the research there the feedback we gave you was |
| 10:34 | 100 yeah you know this was really exciting for us |
| 10:37 | because there is a gap |
| 10:40 | and you could feel it and you'd already had a podcast going you'd already been |
| 10:45 | building up your network which is something we've mentioned in previous uh |
| 10:49 | episodes that having a strong network is really important so do you feel that |
| 10:54 | that really helped you start strong the the network you built |
| 10:59 | 100 and still what i heavily rely on um absolutely and i think for some people |
| 11:04 | perhaps if your career change ends up being in a completely different field it |
| 11:08 | might be a little bit harder but i guess a benefit for me was that i was changing |
| 11:12 | i was pivoting but staying within the same industry and that really helped um |
| 11:17 | in terms of the evidence that you've got of what you know about the space and |
| 11:21 | the connections that you've got and the knowledge that you've got in it |
| 11:24 | but in saying that there was still a truckload that i had to learn and |
| 11:27 | upscale myself on because i was pivoting um and i actually wasn't sure if i had |
| 11:32 | already started the podcast when i had reached out to you guys or if that was |
| 11:37 | i started that once via chatted but yeah perhaps i had actually already started |
| 11:40 | the podcast uh prior to reaching out yeah |
| 11:44 | yeah you definitely had and it was |
| 11:48 | through that podcast you actually were building little networks and |
| 11:53 | potential pathways for yourself maybe other career |
| 11:56 | pathways so even doing that really helped you figure out |
| 12:01 | no i don't want that like it would be great opportunity |
| 12:04 | but i rather keep doing what i'm doing so |
| 12:07 | once you made that decision to say you know once i come back to australia |
| 12:13 | i'm focusing on this new business idea what did you |
| 12:18 | have to do like what you have to overcome did you have self-doubt were |
| 12:22 | there any other hurdles that you had to jump over |
| 12:26 | oh yeah yes there were oh yeah |
| 12:29 | um i think when i reflect on it um |
| 12:34 | i think the biggest struggle i had or the the biggest challenge i had to |
| 12:38 | overcome was a shift in my identity which sounds really deep and big but it |
| 12:44 | is um and i think again even though i was staying in education who i was and |
| 12:50 | what i did changed |
| 12:52 | and who i was in this new space was something that i still |
| 12:57 | am working out two years on and still trying to find my way i feel so much |
| 13:03 | more in that identity now but i think that shift in identity in identity for |
| 13:08 | anyone who either completely changes career paths or shifts |
| 13:12 | is huge um it requires a lot of vulnerability and i think we as a leader |
| 13:18 | in a school i tried to foster a lot of vulnerability in my leadership practice |
| 13:22 | and be authentic um in what i did but it looks so |
| 13:26 | different when you change paths um your comfort |
| 13:30 | zone you're constantly stepping out of the fears that you've got of stepping |
| 13:34 | out of those comfort zones the courage that you have to find um within yourself |
| 13:39 | and from the people around you is just huge uh so i think the shift in identity |
| 13:44 | was probably the the biggest struggle that i faced but something that's |
| 13:49 | also i really struggled with was the difference between what productivity |
| 13:54 | looked like in my old role and in my old self and |
| 13:57 | what productivity looks like in my new space |
| 14:00 | and that's still again something that i'm working on um is because as an |
| 14:05 | educator what does a productive and efficient day look like compared to |
| 14:09 | someone who's starting a new business it just looks so different and the emotions |
| 14:13 | that that the emotions that that evokes in how i spend my time what i spend my |
| 14:17 | time on why i'm spending my time on that um |
| 14:21 | was just huge um and in amongst all of that it's upskilling yourself in your |
| 14:26 | capabilities in your skills in your knowledge um |
| 14:30 | is we're all yeah obstacles that that i have overcome or am overcoming um i |
| 14:36 | would never say that you know you're totally over the other side and then you |
| 14:39 | never have to think about it again it's an ever evolving journey but they were |
| 14:42 | probably some of the biggest things that's it i think even for us like |
| 14:47 | i feel like there's not enough hours in the day |
| 14:50 | um when you own your own business and i also feel that um |
| 14:55 | you could have a really productive day but feel that you've only accomplished |
| 14:59 | such a small little amount but it does add up and sometimes it is also about |
| 15:04 | planting those seeds and you see those results down the track you |
| 15:08 | just got to trust the process and just know your end goal and just |
| 15:13 | keep going one step at a time so that that's the key that's the hardest |
| 15:18 | part though is trusting the process and trusting yourself |
| 15:22 | to get to that next stage you got to do it |
| 15:26 | yeah celebrating each win even if it is tiny even if it's |
| 15:31 | yeah i've updated my filing or my accounts today that's all i |
| 15:35 | had time for but i did it you know and it's still necessary had to be done |
| 15:40 | no absolutely absolutely acknowledging the small wins like chipping away slowly |
| 15:45 | and sometimes you need sometimes you rely or lean on your relational support |
| 15:49 | for that that sometimes you can't see it yourself and that's okay |
| 15:53 | so having people around you helping you identify where the small wins have been |
| 15:56 | has also been really powerful so whether that is my beautiful number one |
| 16:00 | supporter eric my beautiful family friends um a business coach i've been |
| 16:04 | had a few different business coaches mentors um just people in your life who |
| 16:09 | can acknowledge and recognize those wins that maybe you're a little bit blind to |
| 16:13 | uh is also really important then just putting that on yourself to find and to |
| 16:17 | follow it sounds like it's like raising a kid |
| 16:21 | it takes a village it's the same you can't do it all on |
| 16:24 | your own and whether yes you are the one putting in all the work but |
| 16:29 | you you need other people then to support you and help you in other |
| 16:32 | aspects of your life yeah absolutely absolutely and it's also a human need |
| 16:38 | that one one big thing in the education space is around educators not feeling |
| 16:41 | valued and appreciated like it's just a it's a really big issue at the moment |
| 16:45 | and i'm like it's actually beyond education it's not the only it's |
| 16:47 | actually a human need like we actually need that recognition and appreciation |
| 16:53 | and validation of what we're doing so the moment that you know something's |
| 16:55 | really big and important to you but someone else is validating that |
| 16:59 | good on you for doing it or congratulating you for doing something |
| 17:02 | or recognizing that you're doing something that's stepping out of your |
| 17:04 | comfort zone and they're going out of their way to do it it's not just your |
| 17:08 | mum or dad or your husband or your brother or you know whoever just saying |
| 17:11 | hey good on you like your number one supporter is always going to have that |
| 17:13 | chiga but it's actually someone that you didn't expect the recognition from that |
| 17:17 | then just boosts your motivation for something and that is actually human |
| 17:20 | needs so yeah that's really important purpose is |
| 17:24 | your purpose and that's one of the key things about |
| 17:28 | um living a long and happy life there's lots of different elements to it but one |
| 17:32 | of them is having purpose in your life and that purpose could be different for |
| 17:36 | each of us but yes i think you know if you're doing |
| 17:41 | something you feel that there's purpose to it |
| 17:43 | and that you're putting out in the community |
| 17:46 | definitely i'm powerful sorry so i wanted to uh |
| 17:51 | ask about because obviously you've gone and you've done some further studies |
| 17:55 | you've got some accreditation some certifications so a lot of people that |
| 17:58 | we talk to they have that fear that go if i have to |
| 18:02 | start something new and not necessarily even their own businesses just |
| 18:06 | shifting their careers reshaping theircareers oh i i'm gonna have to upskill |
| 18:11 | you know i'm missing this particular skill i need to study i don't know and |
| 18:15 | then i start thinking about the financial and the time and and what does |
| 18:18 | that mean so how did you wrap your head around that |
| 18:23 | and you know decide yes this is what i'm |
| 18:26 | going to do and and push through that it's a good question |
| 18:31 | uh takes time uh for sure and i think it was coming |
| 18:35 | back to a little bit like what pauline just said like coming back to that |
| 18:38 | purpose and that good old icky guy like why are you getting up every day to do |
| 18:41 | what you do and at the time obviously we were in japan |
| 18:44 | and ikigai is a japanese philosophy um and actually happens to be a book that |
| 18:48 | when we were stuck in lockdown i had ordered on amazon you know when you go |
| 18:51 | on amazon and it's like recommended um suggested purchases at the bottom but |
| 18:55 | just add to your cart to just spend more cash yeah well i love that yeah yeah |
| 19:00 | well i was a fool and i added that to the cart one day um and i think that it |
| 19:04 | was just always ringing in the back of my mind you know to japan itself |
| 19:08 | teaching over there the cultural shiftthat in itself was a lot of learning for |
| 19:12 | both of us um both eric and i personally and professionally um and so there was |
| 19:16 | already so much in our lives happening and so then to also compartmentalize |
| 19:20 | that i'm actually thinking that there's a career shift that needs to happen here |
| 19:23 | it was really overwhelming and it did definitely take time as i said of gentle |
| 19:27 | conversations and i guess being hurt like just being heard in that you don't |
| 19:32 | need to fix it straight away um i think was amazing where eric wasn't trying to |
| 19:36 | necessarily fix it he was just giving me the space to share the frustrations um |
| 19:40 | to share the concerns to share the possibilities and then just slowly over |
| 19:43 | time i was able to just sort of say okay i need to do something like i don't want |
| 19:46 | to keep living this way and i think for me personally it was more about everyone |
| 19:51 | else the impact that i was having on others in that i didn't feel |
| 19:56 | like i was being as effective in my role and so therefore that wasn't fair on |
| 20:00 | those that i was teaching the families and even when i say that like even when |
| 20:03 | i finished i still know i was doing an awesome job you know it's not like i |
| 20:07 | wasn't turning up to work it wasn't like i wasn't teaching with my bet like |
| 20:10 | within myself there were the struggles it wasn't the |
| 20:13 | outside it wasn't that i wasn't doing a good job in my role if that makes it so |
| 20:17 | i've had this conversation with people like so you just didn't teach for two |
| 20:20 | years i'm like no no no no one i don't think on the outside would have even |
| 20:23 | known um in many ways unless i had shared with |
| 20:25 | them that i was having those struggles these were all internal limiting beliefs |
| 20:29 | that i was having or my own shifts in my in my own self |
| 20:33 | that was the real working out hang on a minute i'm probably not as effective as |
| 20:37 | i used to be and i'm not waking up every morning absolutely loving what i'm doing |
| 20:40 | even though there's challenges i still loved it that was shifting yeah um so i |
| 20:45 | think that was more yeah the challenge i have another question so you said |
| 20:51 | i did we didn't know this about youbefore but you said that when you first |
| 20:54 | decided to do teaching you had that thought of i'll only do |
| 20:58 | this for 10 years right so that's already really profound |
| 21:02 | like the fact that you kind of knew that about yourself |
| 21:05 | that this was not going to be long term so now that you've shifted and you've |
| 21:09 | got your own thing happening what was your thought process with that |
| 21:14 | one what was my thought process around yeah |
| 21:18 | what did you have germany future this is this is it i'm gonna keep growing this |
| 21:24 | and i'm gonna keep changing it like obviously like you said |
| 21:27 | at the beginning it's all about evolving so you started your business like here |
| 21:32 | but you're going to evolve it's going to happen naturally whether you want to or |
| 21:35 | not but how do you see |
| 21:39 | that progressing so your career continuously reshaping what do you see |
| 21:44 | for your future and what do you think you're going to need to do to achieve |
| 21:48 | that um awesome question big question |
| 21:51 | um back when i said that i only wanted to |
| 21:54 | be in a teacher for 10 years was actually that i didn't i didn't see |
| 21:58 | myself as a classroom teacher for 10 years i probably saw myself as i'd |
| 22:01 | probably teach for 10 years and then i want to be a principal of a school like |
| 22:03 | i want to be at their headship that was like the vision and i think over time |
| 22:07 | once i had exposure to leadership um and was very much involved not as a |
| 22:12 | principal but very involved in what it took uh to be i had a little bit more of |
| 22:17 | an insight i guess into what it took to be a principal and what the job actually |
| 22:20 | was versus what i think i thought it was initially um i then started to just |
| 22:24 | realize that that was not for me um that i i had a drive or there was almost |
| 22:28 | something pulling me um to stay in education i'm still extremely |
| 22:33 | passionate about that lots of people say to me how come you haven't like ventured |
| 22:35 | out to corporate like education's so hard to get into which is so true um |
| 22:39 | education is not easy um to get into and into the systems but um i've just got |
| 22:44 | that's not where my passion is like that's not where i want to have an |
| 22:47 | impact it's helping those who i thought i wanted to become but helping them be |
| 22:50 | the best version of themselves so thatthey can be well to lead well is sort of |
| 22:54 | where that that went so i think it's always |
| 22:57 | where do i see things going um with wellness is i would love it to be the |
| 23:01 | go-to well-being space for leaders in education like that's my vision and i'm |
| 23:05 | not there yet at all so that is 100 where i see it going and where i want it |
| 23:10 | to to go and yes we've made some amazing growth but |
| 23:13 | i want wellness to be the place that leaders go to to get support for |
| 23:17 | themselves and their teams the world that we live in i mean connection |
| 23:20 | belonging relationships have always been part of our human needs maslow's |
| 23:24 | hierarchy like always extremely important parts but i think the more |
| 23:27 | complicated the world's getting and the education system itself is just getting |
| 23:31 | extremely complicated with just work demands just increasing so much both at |
| 23:35 | a system level at a school level um teachers i've never met a teacher who's |
| 23:39 | not just going above and beyond i'm not saying that they don't then burn out and |
| 23:42 | then get a little bit resentful over things but i've never ever met someone |
| 23:45 | who isn't there for the right reasons and |
| 23:47 | i've never ever met a school leader who's not trying to look after their |
| 23:50 | staff but i often try to say that you know we go to university |
| 23:54 | and so much of that is heavily about teaching and learning and as it should |
| 23:57 | be but where is them helping us become professionals in a in a professional |
| 24:01 | workspace almost that executive functioning skills |
| 24:04 | and how do we actually connect and build relationships and have a positive team |
| 24:08 | culture as adults not just at school in a sports team or collaborating in a |
| 24:13 | classroom over an activity that we did or a group assignment at university but |
| 24:16 | as professionals in a workplace with the demands that we've got how can we |
| 24:20 | actually turn up to be the best versionof ourselves but then how we creating |
| 24:23 | that environment for educators in schools so it's multi-dimensional it's |
| 24:27 | so complicated in so many ways but atthe end of the day |
| 24:31 | strong relationships is key and we are as you said on autopilot we're just go |
| 24:36 | go we're not stopping and reflecting and that's something i'm just trying to get |
| 24:39 | the education system to slow down a little bit and actually just stop and |
| 24:42 | reflect and get some clarity because we are just running so fast and i think one |
| 24:45 | of the biggest things that i've learned in this identity shift in career change |
| 24:49 | has been how much i was running on autopilot and as you said pauline how |
| 24:53 | much i've now learned about myself and that's actually can be quite confronting |
| 24:56 | there's a lot that sort of has come up for me over the last two years that's |
| 24:59 | really taken me time to process that actually |
| 25:02 | that is part of me that i wasn't as aware of um |
| 25:05 | because i was so in autopilot um or things have sort of just been i feel |
| 25:10 | like there's almost a spotlight that's being put on them |
| 25:12 | that actually has always been me but once i shift the way that i work and how |
| 25:17 | i work and all the challenges that comewith it things have sort of like sort of |
| 25:20 | been thrown at me that i i wasn't aware of or um |
| 25:24 | i didn't know about and i think that's so much the case for people who don't |
| 25:28 | just have a career change but actually when was the last time you just invested |
| 25:31 | in your own time and your own self and invested in a coach to just stop and |
| 25:35 | reflect for a minute it doesn't have to be for change it doesn't have to be but |
| 25:39 | just learning and growing about yourself is really important too so |
| 25:42 | um yeah i think that's a massive part so on that bright note i have two more |
| 25:47 | questions |
| 25:52 | like because we have obviously a wide range |
| 25:56 | of clients and people listening and |
| 25:59 | our goal for this channel is to talk to people from all different industries |
| 26:04 | that do all different things so with you having the teaching |
| 26:08 | background and now your own business and wellness and all of that |
| 26:14 | two questions is one what advice would you give to people who are thinking of |
| 26:18 | transitioning into education into teaching |
| 26:23 | and the second part is what advice do you have for people transitioning out |
| 26:29 | of teaching |
| 26:33 | i think people transitioning into teaching |
| 26:36 | um is to make sure that you're looking after yourself |
| 26:41 | um it is just so easy um to get caught up and it's so normal |
| 26:46 | to be a new teacher or a new leader or be in a new setting and you just have |
| 26:50 | all those impostor syndrome thoughts of having to prove yourself and until |
| 26:55 | you've got evidence that you're able to do certain things you just work your ass |
| 26:58 | off until you can prove it and you literally burn yourself out trying to do |
| 27:01 | it and that actually there's so many little things that you're doing that's |
| 27:04 | already impressing people like you've got the job for a reason um and so i |
| 27:09 | think those that are going into it like you have to prioritize yourself and that |
| 27:12 | can be really hard sometimes you do need to lean on support |
| 27:16 | external whether that's a network group whether it's a coach whoever it might be |
| 27:20 | it's okay not to be doing that on your own like you lean on lean on support for |
| 27:24 | it but you have to prioritize yourself it's |
| 27:26 | so important and that doesn't mean having really strict boundaries and |
| 27:30 | knowing that this is the only time that i work and i don't work outside of it |
| 27:33 | because we all know that education is seasonal in so many ways like there's |
| 27:36 | certain terms in certain part of the terms where you're going to be giving |
| 27:39 | more than normal but to be able to balance that out with other other |
| 27:42 | seasons where it's not so jam-packed with things and where you're |
| 27:46 | able to have a little bit more autonomy around what you give and what you don't |
| 27:50 | is really important um i think those that are thinking about |
| 27:54 | whether getting out of education totally or shifting |
| 27:57 | what it is that they want to do within it |
| 28:00 | is get in contact with natasha and pauline um because without having no |
| 28:05 | it's true without having the the people outside of there's a quote that i use in |
| 28:10 | in what i do now that came from a client but it actually is the same for you guys |
| 28:13 | is that it's so nice to have someone in your corner that's not part of your |
| 28:17 | inner circle and that's a massive part of big marketing thing that we use |
| 28:21 | because that's what clients have said to me is that amy it's just so nice to have |
| 28:24 | someone in my corner that's not part of my inner circle who's there supporting |
| 28:27 | me but he's challenging me and can isn't isn't the has have a different |
| 28:31 | perspective on on you as a person and i think that was a really important part |
| 28:36 | where everyone in my life was telling me to just go for it had so much belief in |
| 28:39 | me and not that you two didn't at all of course you did but it came from a |
| 28:41 | different challenge around like but how could that look and what are your |
| 28:44 | options and it was sort of those deeper questions that weren't as surface level |
| 28:48 | as perhaps those that loved me that would just like go for it like we've got |
| 28:51 | our 100 100 support um so i think definitely getting in touch with in |
| 28:55 | creating that that space to reflect and get clarity because it's |
| 28:59 | really hard to do that on your own um you know yeah you can sit with like |
| 29:02 | someone can send you some journal questions and you can get a piece of |
| 29:05 | paper and start to journal it just doesn't have the same impact so |
| 29:08 | i think definitely creating that space for yourself and investing the time and |
| 29:11 | money to have someone to create that space in |
| 29:15 | that professional space is extremely important um to connect back to back to |
| 29:20 | your why and why you're doing what you're doing |
| 29:22 | when you realized that that wasn't what you wanted |
| 29:28 | what was the feeling because there are a lot of |
| 29:30 | people that we talk to that the they think oh one day you know i want to be |
| 29:34 | the director or the ceo or the manager and then they say i don't know if i want |
| 29:38 | that anymore i don't know and it's you know |
| 29:42 | how did you sit with that feeling before knowing what else you wanted to |
| 29:46 | do when that came how did that make you feel |
| 29:50 | uh it's not a great feeling initially um |
| 29:54 | because you feel like that's what you know you've sort of got your career |
| 29:58 | trajectory sort of laid out um but i think it also at the same time is |
| 30:02 | like everything in life where we're constantly changing and evolving so if |
| 30:06 | we actually are too set on what it is that we want to do and who we want to |
| 30:11 | become it's probably unrealistic so i think |
| 30:15 | as i was growing both in my profession but also |
| 30:19 | personally i was starting to realize that i just don't think i align with |
| 30:22 | that necessarily anymore it's something that |
| 30:25 | people that you meet in your life and i had obviously met eric and |
| 30:28 | you know we we as a couple had really strong values of fulfillment and travel |
| 30:32 | and being able to do what we do and not having that restriction like that was |
| 30:36 | not necessarily a core value of mine 15 years ago when i decided that i wanted |
| 30:41 | to get into education and become a principal but um as things evolved and |
| 30:45 | as we as a couple evolved and as westarted to create our vision of what we |
| 30:48 | wanted life to be certain values had shifted a little bit and |
| 30:52 | it didn't align anymore um you know i didn't want to be stuck to term time i |
| 30:57 | didn't want to have to turn up to the same office i didn't that wasn't |
| 31:00 | something that made me got me excited about life um you know we are currently |
| 31:04 | i'm currently in thailand in koh samui because we're just at the end of a |
| 31:08 | five-month world travel trip where we've both |
| 31:11 | worked and traveled like it's wild who would have thought that two years ago |
| 31:14 | like we would be doing this trip and we're about to head home after five |
| 31:17 | months it's it's crazy and something that as you said it looks it might sound |
| 31:22 | all well and good but my goodness it's been a bit of a wild five months with so |
| 31:25 | many things of how do you manage work and travel time zones all those sorts of |
| 31:29 | things um but |
| 31:32 | again thanking our past selves for having this opportunity like what did it |
| 31:36 | take to get here and how thankful for we are for what we did but also be really |
| 31:40 | present in the moment is super important as well whilst also looking for things |
| 31:44 | in the future so i think it's just that shift in like you can't always |
| 31:48 | if you're too set then sometimes you're missing out on opportunities that are |
| 31:51 | actually right in front of you um exactly and i think that |
| 31:56 | yeah it was very uncomfortable initially um to realize it but i think a little |
| 32:02 | bit naive to think that what i had projected as a |
| 32:06 | 21 year old um was going to be where i landed you know at 34. so it was amazing |
| 32:11 | for being on our on our channel today and we really appreciate your time and |
| 32:18 | the advice that you've given to our listeners i think they've learned a lot |
| 32:21 | especially they're thanking themselves and |
| 32:23 | and whoever's wanting to go into teaching or out of teaching i think you |
| 32:26 | can very valuable advice there and we truly appreciate your time and you are |
| 32:32 | incredibly inspiring as well and um and thank you for sharing things with |
| 32:36 | us today that i'm going to take away with me so this is fantastic thank you |
| 32:41 | really appreciate it oh my absolute pleasure guys so nice to see you both |
| 32:45 | again and thank you so much for the role that you played in my journey as well um |
| 32:49 | it's it's so um surreal uh to be on your podcast when |
| 32:54 | you know you've helped me so much um two years ago and if there are anyone that |
| 32:58 | is there if there is anyone that is listening that becomes a client or is |
| 33:01 | just listening and thinking oh my god like i'm in that same education space |
| 33:04 | and just want someone to listen like i'm here um i'm most active on linkedin so |
| 33:09 | shoot me a message i'm more than happy to jump on a call and just chat to you |
| 33:12 | about it yes we will link all of your details |
| 33:16 | yeah to to our i don't know how you two but we |
| 33:20 | will link all your details so where it needs to be it will be a |
| 33:25 | promise i'll leave it to natasha she is the |
| 33:28 | techie person okay i just write resumes like this |
| 33:31 | believe it's a natasha okay |
| 33:34 | thank you so much thanks guys thanks for having me |
| 33:38 | talk soon bye |
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