What if 2025 wasn’t just about hitting KPIs—but about choosing people and building a culture that truly lasts?
In this heartfelt episode of Career Reshaped, Natasha and Pauline sit down with a recruitment leader who shares her “superpower”: reading people and trusting her gut when it comes to hiring. From learning that integrity starts at the first interview, to embedding empathy and care into every stage of onboarding, she opens up about what it really takes to grow a team that thrives.
This conversation goes beyond resumes and placements—it’s about creating an environment where consultants genuinely care for both clients and candidates. She explains why “candidate care calls” are not just nice-to-have, but non-negotiable, and how the right culture can lift everyone’s energy instead of breaking it down.
Her story is proof that recruitment isn’t just about filling roles—it’s about building relationships, protecting standards, and never compromising when your gut says “this isn’t right.” And when you get it right? The difference is night and day.
Whether you’re leading a team, navigating your own career choices, or simply wondering what culture you’re absorbing at work, this episode is a reminder: the people you bring in—and the values you protect—shape everything.
🎧 Tune in now and start rethinking what you measure in 2025: not just results, but the integrity and energy you bring into every hire.
| Time | Transcript |
|---|---|
| 00:05 | So, how have you built a culture where your consultants serve both clients and |
| 00:10 | candidates with integrity and empathy? It's not necessarily a cultural thing. |
| 00:14 | It's more just like the way that we've hired and it comes from that initial |
| 00:19 | hiring. So, like we hire people that like align with our values and then they |
| 00:24 | come in and they see that reputation that we have in the market. they see |
| 00:28 | that the standards that we hold and then they genuinely want to be part of it. |
| 00:32 | So, it's not like something necessarily that we have to force. Um, in fact, it's |
| 00:36 | not something that we have to force at all. It's like we want like we want them |
| 00:40 | to come in and they we want them to want to be part of that culture. So, that's |
| 00:44 | definitely something that we kind of find comes naturally if we're hiring the |
| 00:48 | right people. And I know it's easier said than done like hiring the right |
| 00:51 | people, but I would say that I am a really good judge of character. I can |
| 00:56 | tell straight away. um whether or not someone's going to be right. I call it |
| 01:00 | my superpower. I don't know. But um we we do tend to to bring in good humans. |
| 01:05 | So yeah, that's kind of where we're at. And then from hiring, like it's embedded |
| 01:09 | in the training that we do with with people once they start as well. So like |
| 01:13 | you still have to teach a little bit like we we go through like the standards |
| 01:17 | that we have from the very like very beginning and that that's just kind of |
| 01:21 | passed down. And like I say, we do pay for that platform which is recruiter |
| 01:25 | insider that holds us all accountable for our service for our clients and our |
| 01:30 | candidates. Um, you know, it captures real time sort of insights um from the |
| 01:35 | processes that we're doing. It allows us to control hiring outcomes and the |
| 01:40 | overall experience that people get when they come in contact with us. So yeah, I |
| 01:43 | do just think the consistency that we have um the KPIs that we set which are |
| 01:49 | probably outside of the norm are you know how many candidate care calls you |
| 01:53 | need to do each week um it's not optional is part of our process. |
| 01:56 | That's great. Well obviously you have a really good induction process with that |
| 02:00 | training and all that but you know people uh tend to become their |
| 02:06 | environment. they sort of um what's word is it emulate or adapt or whatever it is |
| 02:13 | they morph into their environment. So usually um if there is you could have be |
| 02:19 | a really happy golucky person but when if you go into such a dreary negative |
| 02:23 | work environment eventually over time it beats you down and you become dreary or |
| 02:27 | demotivated and whatnot. So yeah it's you're getting the right people but |
| 02:31 | you're keeping that energy there for everyone to sort of absorb which I love. |
| 02:36 | I mean, yeah, you're you're the type of agency that I would want to work for and |
| 02:40 | with because it just gives me Sorry, |
| 02:43 | I'm looking for a job. Come on over. Well, I love recruit. I do love |
| 02:47 | recruitment. Um, like you're saying, it's your superpower to read people. I |
| 02:51 | feel the same, but I used to call it something else. I used to call it love |
| 02:54 | at first sight cuz I used to believe in love at first sight, but only in the |
| 02:59 | recruitment world because as soon as they come in, I'm like, I'd know. I'm |
| 03:03 | like, that's it. That they're the one. the one. That's the one. And I was |
| 03:07 | always right. A few times, I mean, got to be honest, a few times I have gotten |
| 03:12 | it wrong. Oh, yeah. You don't always get it right. |
| 03:14 | Most of the time, I was able to like read the room really well and understand |
| 03:19 | that person and connect with them. But yeah, when I got it wrong, I was just |
| 03:24 | I think the times that um it's maybe gone wrong in the past when I've |
| 03:27 | reflected on it would be like I've been time poor |
| 03:31 | and I've gone, "Oh, I need to find someone for this role." like, you know, |
| 03:34 | this person's um going to be gone in a few weeks and I really need to find |
| 03:38 | someone and I've met someone and I've known in my gut deep deep deep down that |
| 03:42 | it's probably not right. But I'm like, no, it'll it'll be fine. It'll be fine. |
| 03:45 | It'll be fine. Cuz I'm like, I don't have time to find. |
| 03:49 | Don't you? Yeah. You're and you just know from the |
| 03:51 | be. You kind of know and then you learn even more from it cuz like the next time |
| 03:55 | you meet someone and like they are the perfect person and then you're working |
| 03:59 | with them, you're like, "Oh my goodness, this is night and day." And so, yeah, |
| 04:02 | like I said, you don't always get it right, but I think you can usually go |
| 04:06 | back to I think in recruitment, it's like if it's not a hell yes, especially |
| 04:12 | when you're recruiting for your agency, you need to understand that it's |
| 04:15 | probably not going to be right. Yeah. No, you're right. |
| 04:18 | We all learn as we go. Yeah. It's those bums on seats where you |
| 04:22 | have no choice but to hire a lot in a short period of time and that's the KPI, |
| 04:26 | right? That's when I started getting it wrong. But I remember this one time I've |
| 04:30 | interviewed someone. They interviewed really well, like really well. And I |
| 04:34 | really like as I was saying, people are unpredictable, but actually had really |
| 04:38 | good rapport. I thought they were great. And I put them forward to meet with um |
| 04:43 | the operations manager and he was going to make that final sort of decision. And |
| 04:48 | he came back to me and he's like, "Something seems off." He goes, "I think |
| 04:53 | that I smelt a lot of alcohol on him. I had also smelt like something." And I |
| 04:57 | was like, "No, no, I think that's the cologne. I think it's just really cheap |
| 05:02 | cologne." Then he put a lot of cologne on us. You think? I was like, "Yeah, I |
| 05:05 | think." And so we end up hiring him and it was a |
| 05:09 | big mistake because he would come to work with black eye. He'll come to work |
| 05:12 | hung over, he come to work drunk, then he stopped coming to work. It's like |
| 05:16 | maybe that wasn't cologne. And I just didn't pick that up because we had such |
| 05:20 | a good rapport. I did smell something, but I genuinely thought it was his |
| 05:24 | cologne. You're blindsided. |
| 05:26 | Uh yeah. So that was a mistake that I couldn't believe that I didn't notice. |
| 05:32 | Yeah. But at the same time, I felt a lot of |
| 05:35 | pressure to get someone in. Yeah. Exactly. |
| 05:38 | In anywhere. But um yeah, I hadn't made that mistake |
| 05:43 | again. Yeah. |
| 05:44 | That much. But recruiters like we can hire for anyone, |
| 05:47 | but when it comes to then hiring for our own organization, it becomes like a |
| 05:51 | chore. You know, you're like, "Oh no, I'm gonna have to find someone for this, |
| 05:54 | right?" And then you kind of think to yourself, right, what am I looking for? |
| 05:57 | And like you don't give yourself the proper job brief sometimes, you know, |
| 06:01 | because emotion starts to get involved as well and all the things. |
| 06:05 | So yeah, always learning from recruiting for ourselves for sure. |
| 06:09 | Yeah. So looking into the future, what changes |
| 06:12 | would you love to see in the industry? So over the next 5 10 years, both like |
| 06:16 | you know, culturally, operationally, or just any changes at all? I I yeah I kind |
| 06:21 | of touched on it a little bit um above like I would really love and it's a it's |
| 06:25 | a pipe dream because look we've we've worked for with some clients for years |
| 06:29 | and and we love working with them and we have a trust with them. So honestly |
| 06:32 | whether we worked conting contingently with them or retained with them it |
| 06:36 | wouldn't make any difference to us because they're loyal to us and you know |
| 06:40 | if they give us a brief and we take it and we put our heart and soul into it |
| 06:43 | and we ask them the straight up questions are you working with anyone |
| 06:46 | else at the moment they say no cool let's just go ahead that's fine but for |
| 06:52 | other sort of areas moving from a contingency only model to retained |
| 06:56 | shared risk model that would be the dream um I I think eliminate sort of |
| 07:04 | transactional CB pushing type recruiters. Those recruiters that you |
| 07:10 | know they're speaking to a candidate, their eyes glaze over, they're not even |
| 07:13 | listening. They're completely hyperactive thinking about something |
| 07:17 | else. You don't want to be working with those types of people. I think |
| 07:20 | preserving the sort of human element as AI and tech starts to take over like as |
| 07:26 | that advances like still remembering that AI is not going to be able to have |
| 07:31 | that deep meaningful conversation that you need to have with your candidates |
| 07:34 | post and before interviews you know prior to getting roles. So this is |
| 07:38 | probably an area that I feel quite passionate about. So I've got a few |
| 07:41 | more. I think what I would love to see more than anything is agencies as a |
| 07:46 | whole sort of collectively maintaining their value, knowing what |
| 07:51 | their sort of value is, knowing what their rates are rather than this sort of |
| 07:55 | racing to the bottom and then clients sort of meeting us in the middle and not |
| 07:59 | and sort of actively avoiding these lowquality, |
| 08:03 | low rate transactional recruiters. Um because if we don't sort of look to to |
| 08:10 | um you know r raise the standard or keep a good standard then the quality of of |
| 08:16 | work that recruiters do is just going to get less and less and it's going to |
| 08:19 | continue having that sort of um reputation that some recruitment |
| 08:23 | agencies have. Um because we shouldn't be expected to drop our rates to compete |
| 08:30 | to get jobs on because we know our value and our worth and we hold strong on the |
| 08:35 | service that we provide for both our clients and our candidates. So it's more |
| 08:39 | about seeing like agencies genuinely knowing their value and holding that |
| 08:44 | value um that they can provide to other businesses. Like you just want to make |
| 08:48 | sure that um we're keeping that industry standard. and you see um yeah some crazy |
| 08:53 | rates and things out there and you just think like you know working at 8% is not |
| 08:58 | going to be showing the true value of your work. |
| 09:02 | Definitely not. So it's Yeah. low.Yeah. I mean that just plucked that out |
| 09:06 | of thin air but you know what I mean. Oh but there are there are agents. |
| 09:09 | Yeah. I mean there are yeah there definitely are. |
| 09:11 | It is very low. Um especially in this time where everything is so expensive. |
| 09:17 | On the flip side like if if the if you are going to be providing the service of |
| 09:23 | 8% then continue on our platform. |
| 09:31 | I was a client I wouldn't be working with with that but people |
| 09:36 | just like bring that standard up and then maintain the standard. Yeah, I |
| 09:40 | think that's a great vision to have for the future |
| 09:44 | because I feel like especially the larger recruitment agencies, I feel it's |
| 09:48 | more so where it's about the money, the bottom dollar, it's not about the |
| 09:52 | quality of work. And I find that what I've heard in any case, I've not worked |
| 09:57 | for large agencies, so I can't really tell you, but what I've heard from |
| 10:02 | others who have worked in there or who've dealt with recruiters from large |
| 10:06 | companies that it's about them getting that sale, getting the client, but not |
| 10:11 | really caring about the candidate. It's they left. |
| 10:16 | It's volume. It's it's grabby. it's taking um on 12 roles at once, not |
| 10:21 | really knowing that you're going to provide a good service for any of them. |
| 10:24 | And for us, like we actively encourage our consultants to only take on work |
| 10:29 | that we absolutely know we can fill and that we will fill. Um because again, we |
| 10:34 | provide stats on our fill rate. And our fill rate is significantly higher than |
| 10:38 | market um average because I feel like now these companies, |
| 10:41 | they're just hiring salespeople, not recruiters. And you need that that human |
| 10:47 | element that you keep talking about that is so vital and I really what I would |
| 10:52 | like to see is yes the AI thing it has its place and it can be side by side |
| 10:58 | could be helpful to filter through or whatnot but I wouldn't rely on it. I |
| 11:02 | would also like to see that you say you provide training to the people that work |
| 11:08 | with you, your recruiters. That's what I would like to see that training, you |
| 11:12 | know, there's no training. There's no what makes a good recruiter. Like if a |
| 11:17 | person comes in with no experience, but they're good at sales and they can get |
| 11:20 | the client, they can sell the dream to the client, but then they can't fulfill |
| 11:24 | that dream because their emotional, not just the emotional intelligence, but |
| 11:28 | they don't know what they're looking for. they don't know really what like to |
| 11:33 | focus on. So on paper they may be good. They might the candidate might sell a |
| 11:39 | beautiful story but they can't read between the lines. And I think a really |
| 11:44 | good recruiter is one who can read between the lines. So I feel like when |
| 11:48 | it comes to hiring good recruiters is hiring people with that emotional |
| 11:52 | intelligence. Cuz what I found is with recruiters and people in the HR |
| 11:57 | industry, we're very similar and it's kind of we're likeminded people and we |
| 12:03 | get passionate about the same things and we read people the same way. And anyone |
| 12:08 | that I've found that were successful in the role were also very personable and |
| 12:14 | bubbly and happy and and and saw the bigger picture and, you know, looked at |
| 12:19 | the gray as opposed to just the, you know, black and white. You got this, got |
| 12:23 | that? Great. You're in. Before we get into the nitty-gritty of this topic, we |
| 12:27 | just wanted to check in and say that if you believe that you need some |
| 12:31 | assistance and that we could help you, reach out to us today. Check out our |
| 12:35 | website, join our newsletter. We'd love to be in touch. We wanted to quickly |
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| 12:54 | If someone was listening today only remembers one thing about working with |
| 12:59 | recruiters, what should it be? If it was a candidate sort of looking to |
| 13:02 | work with the recruiter, I would just always remember that they are there to |
| 13:06 | advocate for you. So, if your recruiter that you're working with is not |
| 13:10 | advocating for you in the right way and you know in your gut that they're not |
| 13:14 | there to help you with your process, then they're probably not the right |
| 13:17 | recruiter for you. They're there to negotiate. They're there to ask the |
| 13:21 | hard-hitting questions. Um, if someone doesn't, you know, take the time to get |
| 13:25 | to know you in depth, then they're probably not going to be able to |
| 13:28 | advocate for you. And yeah, working with a recruiter is, yeah, a chance for you |
| 13:33 | to to have someone to speak about your experience in depth. A chance you don't |
| 13:38 | you, you know, you don't often get just by applying for roles directly. |
| 13:41 | Do you recommend that a recruiter just calls your agency to have a chat with |
| 13:45 | you, not wait to see a job ad pop up? if they're actively looking for roles in |
| 13:50 | the market and they're ready to go, um we would really recommend sending their |
| 13:54 | CV through and then they'll get a call. Um just calling then leads to can you |
| 13:59 | send me your CV and then it's just an extra step. So if they just actually |
| 14:03 | send their CV directly to our agency, one thing that we we absolutely do at |
| 14:09 | Lotus People, which is um you some other agencies might think this is a bit |
| 14:13 | crazy, is absolutely everybody that comes in contact with us gets a |
| 14:18 | response. So in saying that then uh where can job |
| 14:21 | seekers or potential clients go to connect with Lotus people? |
| 14:25 | Well, we've just had a jazzy new website. So um our ops team have been |
| 14:30 | working on that. So, we've got a new website, obviously, just lotus people. |
| 14:34 | Um, for us, we absolutely love LinkedIn. So, please connect with us on LinkedIn. |
| 14:40 | Um, obviously you can send me a message um on LinkedIn as well. Obviously, my |
| 14:45 | name's Iona Calville. Um, and we've just started doing Tik Toks. Um, two of the |
| 14:50 | team um in the temporary division, they're absolutely loving it. And so, we |
| 14:54 | just let them run free with that. They've had uh me on a couple of them as |
| 14:58 | well. So yeah, we'll see if that takes off, but um yeah, you can find us um |
| 15:02 | across these platforms. And then just the last question, when |
| 15:05 | people look back on the work you're doing now with Lotus people, what do you |
| 15:11 | hope they remember the most? I think it's probably that we always |
| 15:14 | lead with or like I always try and lead, but like as an organization like we we |
| 15:19 | really try and lead with integrity. Just putting ourselves in other people's |
| 15:23 | shoes. Like how does something make someone feel? Like I always just think |
| 15:27 | like are we leading in a way that's like makes sense to other people? You know, |
| 15:32 | are we doing the best thing that we can by other people? And so for that reason |
| 15:36 | and like with internally like I just like to think that my team always know |
| 15:40 | that like I've got their best interests at heart. Like I'm always looking at |
| 15:43 | ways that we can help them develop both personally um you know and |
| 15:48 | professionally. For us, recruitment's not just about doing things for the sake |
| 15:52 | of a transaction or for the sake of a sale. Nobody should be ever left |
| 15:57 | wondering what's happening. We don't sacrifice the experience that we give |
| 16:03 | people um for the sake of like you said just like a client relationship like |
| 16:07 | it's got to be both parties leaving no stone unturned. So I feel |
| 16:12 | like I've kind of like waffled a bit there but there's just so much that |
| 16:15 | comes to mind when I'm thinking and yeah I think I think looking back I think |
| 16:20 | anyone that's worked with me will will say that I've always led with humor. I |
| 16:24 | think I mentioned that at the beginning like I've obviously had quite a serious |
| 16:27 | chat with you um today. This is probably the longest period of time that I've |
| 16:31 | been serious in my life. Um but that's I do I lead with humor. Like if something |
| 16:37 | goes wrong like we pick ourselves back up. We kind of go I cannot believe that |
| 16:41 | that just happened. Like that's probably the worst thing that could have happened |
| 16:44 | today. But we just get on with it. Um, I'm I'm a very level person. So, you |
| 16:51 | know, like if something does go wrong, like I always I'm I'm this this is me. |
| 16:57 | Like this is a secret. I wish that was me. |
| 16:59 | But it is who at I mean my partner might say different in my personal life, but |
| 17:04 | in at work like nothing, you know, throws me up or down. And I do believe |
| 17:09 | that creates a really safe space for my team to be able to really open up to me |
| 17:14 | straight away. If something's gone wrong, they don't they're not going to |
| 17:16 | be leader. They're not going to fear that I'm going |
| 17:19 | to turn around and be like, "Well, why did that happen? Like, what's going on |
| 17:21 | with that? Why would you why would you have like No. |
| 17:24 | One thing I have noticed about people who are scared at work, they don't do |
| 17:32 | their job because they're scared to make a decision. They're scared to put |
| 17:36 | something forward. So, that fear mobilizes them and they can't do |
| 17:40 | anything. So, scared to ask questions. The more that people feel comfortable to |
| 17:46 | try something new and all, that's when you get really great great work out of |
| 17:50 | them and great ideas. Not everything's going to work, but they're not afraid to |
| 17:54 | put something out there and you get the most out of that person back, which is |
| 18:00 | fantastic.Yeah. If something goes wrong, it's how |
| 18:03 | do we take action and how do we sort it? It's not we can learn about it later. |
| 18:08 | Yeah. Let's deal with it in the moment and not |
| 18:10 | get too worried about you deal with it and you learn from it. |
| 18:13 | the end of the day there's bigger things happening in the world you know so you |
| 18:16 | just have to go with that mindset and then nothing will um upset you too much |
| 18:20 | in your and it's good that you're humorous with |
| 18:22 | the candidate too because I think there's a lot of stress on their end and |
| 18:26 | a lot of pressure and I feel like if you come along and you're like everything's |
| 18:31 | okay and it's going to be okay you probably ease them and bring back some |
| 18:35 | hope and motivation to the whole process I think that it's not just what you're |
| 18:39 | doing for your team but what you're doing for others |
| 18:43 | who are looking for work and maybe nervous about it and you're making them |
| 18:48 | feel like it's okay. I want to sneak in one quick question which was not on the |
| 18:53 | the sheet but video resumes. What's your stance? Have you seen many come through? |
| 18:58 | Have you had clients that prefer them over word documents? What do you think? |
| 19:04 | So, at my old uh agency in New Zealand, um we're going back three and a half |
| 19:12 | years. Um well, that was when I left. We're probably going back like six or |
| 19:15 | seven years. We started using a platform called video my job. I don't know if |
| 19:19 | you've ever heard of it. And that was something that we actually were getting |
| 19:22 | every single candidate that we interviewed at the time. We would get |
| 19:25 | them to do a video my job and then we would be sending that video to the |
| 19:28 | client. And that was something that was they were really trying to take off at |
| 19:32 | that point. I think it was really good in like the temporary space as well |
| 19:35 | because quite often like we kind of don't really want them to interview |
| 19:38 | temps as such sometimes because it's got to be really quick so you can send over |
| 19:42 | that video. But it's it's a good reminder for me that I haven't done |
| 19:47 | anything like that here. Do I talk about it in in a in a day-to-day basis? No. Do |
| 19:52 | I like the fact you've asked me that? Yes. Because it's reminded me that it |
| 19:56 | was actually a really good tool. Um butI haven't had many conversations on it |
| 20:01 | recently. But it was good at the time. But it was something that you |
| 20:05 | facilitated and guided the candidate on it was. |
| 20:08 | Yeah. We just send them a link and they would do they would do it. |
| 20:11 | I think that's great for high turnover roles like temping and stuff like that. |
| 20:14 | That's a great idea. I think for big roles like if you were going to go for |
| 20:19 | say a CEO position. I don't think a recording is great, but I mean people |
| 20:24 | are talking about it more. It's not there yet. Like not everyone's doing it |
| 20:28 | yet, but I don't know. I don't know about it. |
| 20:31 | There can be look people will have opinions on it as well because it's like |
| 20:35 | are you opening up certain biases um with having it? It's like when you put |
| 20:39 | like photos on CVs like are you looking at the person's picture or are you |
| 20:43 | looking at their experience? So yeah, I mean like there's always going to be |
| 20:47 | nuances to everything. So um yeah, I think it is I think |
| 20:51 | amazing. Thank you. Thank you so much for your time. Thank you for answering |
| 20:53 | that extra little question. |
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